Is God involved in every aspect of our lives or are there some things that He leaves up to our discretion?

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Is God involved in every aspect of our lives or are there some things that He leaves up to our discretion?

Status: Open Dec 28, 2014 - 06:00 PM

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Dec 29, 2014 - 01:48 AM

Excellent question... I believe there are some, perhaps many things, we are free to pursue, accomplish, and enjoy, without necessarily "direct leading" of the Holy Spirit".
What do you think?

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Dec 29, 2014 - 02:15 AM

I agree with Newname on this. I believe God will allow us to follow what we want, but is always there to guide us if we would seek His guidance and counsel. One of the biggest signs of how much He loves us is how He never forces Himself on anyone.

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Dec 29, 2014 - 08:10 AM

Like the other answers I would say that He is as involved as you allow and/or invite Him to be.
He has His perfect will planned out for you but will never force it on you and will wait patiently for you to surrender your will and seek for Him to lead and guide you into all truth, and if you never make that choice, He honors your free will and allows you to make that decision.
Likewise, He anxiously waits for you to involve Him in your affairs by your prayers prayed in faith.

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Dec 29, 2014 - 11:10 AM

God has His perfect will planned out for me? I was taught this too, but I do not see it in scripture (NT). I do see in scripture that His perfect will for me is all of a spiritual nature, not natural things.... He desires that we be made new in the attitudes of our minds (Eph. 4:23) that we put on our new selves, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness (Eph. 4:24): that we are to take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness (Eph. 5:10). I do not see that this or anything, is all pre- planned for us. His pleasing and perfect will for our lives is that we not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but rather, be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Rom. 12:2), living a life worthy of the Lord, bearing fruit, and growing in the knowledge of God (Col. 1:10).

As far as natural decisions: where to work and live, who to specifically marry (just be equally yoked), whether to have kids or how many, where to vacation, etc... God, leaves all this, and much more, to our own discretion... and I thank Him for it...

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Dec 29, 2014 - 07:44 PM

I differ from the others in my thinking. I firmly believe that God is in control of every aspect of our lives. I believe scripture tells us that God places our will within us, for Philippians 2:13 says “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure”.

We also see in Psalms 37:23, “The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.” And in Proverbs 16:9 “A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.”

God has taught me many things on this subject, and these are the things He has taught me to believe.

Blessings

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Dec 31, 2014 - 06:00 AM

I thank all of you for your input. There is a lot of good stuff here to chew on. Overall, I believe that if our desire is to be pleasing to the Lord,
and, to walk in His ways, then He is pleased with us. With this kind of a heart, I believe that He will ultimately show us what is right.
Thank you all, God Bless and have a happy NEW year. May we walk in the newness of the Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter, which kills.

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heavykevy

on 12/31/2014 8:40:10 AM | Like (0) | Report

I don't mean to be nitpicky here but are you combining more than one reference here?
Walking in the newness of the spirit could be from several places, but the last part, not in the oldness of the letter... comes from 2 cor 3:6.
And I am curious, do you understand what walking in the newness of the spirit refers to, and what the oldness of the letter refers to in the contexts where these passages came from?

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vesselofmercy

on 1/1/2015 8:01:53 PM | Like (0) | Report

Brother Heavykevy, I am glad to respond to your question. I often speak off the cuff with no scripture references which would be best. I do not have a lot of time to elaborate with scripture references, which would be best. I do believe that this concept comes from 2cor. chapters 2, 3 etc.
My understanding is that "the law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ". Moses ministered the Law or letter that was written on tablets, meaning the ten commandments, which leads us to condemnation,quilt and death because we can't keep them.This is the Old Covenant.
Jesus inaugurated the New Covenant is His Blood. He ministered the Spirit, this is the new and living way which leads to justification, righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. This is why there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ
who walk after the Spirit or Jesus, and not after the flesh meaning works, or Moses.
This is my hope for us in 2015, that we walk in the newness of life or Spirit, and not oldness of the letter or flesh.
I hope this blesses you.

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heavykevy

on 1/1/2015 9:14:44 PM | Like (0) | Report

Thank you for elaborating...
One thing I would like to point out that it appears you haven't fully grasped yet is that where these passages you referred to mentions "Spirit", in most, if not all that you mentioned, the passage is referring to your born again human spirit and not the Holy Spirit. And though it may seem a minor thing it is actualy important to understand. For it is only by being born again in to His image and receiving His nature in us that we are His offspring and can be able to live and walk by our new born again nature and be like Jesus who is our example that we are expected to conform to.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/2/2015 9:14:40 AM | Like (0) | Report

You are welcome. I trust that the ones who translated the bible into english by way of the King James understood the greek and hebrew much better that I and were probably correct. So, when the word Spirit is capitalized, I take that to be referring to the Holy Spirit of God and not a human spirit.

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heavykevy

on 1/2/2015 10:25:01 AM | Like (0) | Report

Unfortunately, they were not infallible and mistranslated many places with a capital that should have been a lower case s.
You must rely on the context to know if the text is referring to the Holy Spirit or the born again spirit that was given us.
The problem with the Greek text is that the text did not use capitals so that the translators had to make educated guesses as to when it should be capital and lower case.
One prominent location of many mistakes is Romans 8 where the first mention of the Holy Spirit is actually in verse 16 "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children (teknon - meaning offspring) of God. Every spirit before that in chapter 8 should be lower case. If you would like to listen to sermons that will help you fully understand why, I highly recommend the 6 series of sermon entitled: "The Born Again Trail" at daveroberson.org/series.aspx.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/2/2015 3:05:06 PM | Like (0) | Report

I would have to look into that, but you made my point in that they had to use educated guesses which few people would be qualified to do I am guessing. So I go with their educated guesses. Thanks for sharing.

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heavykevy

on 1/2/2015 9:52:07 PM | Like (0) | Report

Vessel of mercy, you need not be at themercy of fallible mankind when God the Holy Spirit has been sent to be your teacher...
When you learn to get it straight from Him then you will be able to discern with greater accuracy than the translators. The sermon series I shared in my previous post will teach you how to do that.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/3/2015 12:45:31 PM | Like (1) | Report

Brother, If I were to take issue with the translation of any writing, I think it best to search out qualified translationists to verify the validity of the translation. I think it is very dangerous, as we have been given many stern warnings, not to change Gods word. Saying that the H.S told me so, gives license to people to manipulate the word as they see fit.

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heavykevy

on 1/3/2015 10:41:19 PM | Like (0) | Report

If you were referring to the original text, I would agree with you, but for a translation into a vague non-exact language such as English, I disagree. And I trust the Holy Spirit more to reveal what He was saying in the original text than the translators.
I do believe that the King James is the best translation into English, but it is most certainly not infallible as is the original text.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/4/2015 9:27:16 AM | Like (1) | Report

Can you help me to understand how the Holy Spirit does that? Do you read the original manuscripts in greek, and He tells you how it is to be understood in modern american english?

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newname

on 1/4/2015 12:15:49 PM | Like (1) | Report

Yes, let's get to the specifics, Heavy... thank you

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heavykevy

on 1/5/2015 10:57:13 PM | Like (0) | Report

I will get back with you as soon as I can.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/6/2015 3:10:05 PM | Like (0) | Report

Take your time Brother, as I am very interested.

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heavykevy

on 1/7/2015 10:03:54 PM | Like (0) | Report

If I tell you will you believe me? If I lay it out for you will you actually study it out and benefit from it?

All of the answers are actually located in the foundational teaching sermons that Pastor Dave has offered for free from his website... Primarily you will find the answer in the Series section contained in the 3 series of sermons having the root word Meditate in their titles. These sermons teach how to cooperate with the Holy Spirit in order to allow Him to teach you what He meant when He inspired the writing of the passages.

First, I would like to point out that I don't read the Greek nor the Hebrew. How do you think the church in the days of Paul (which were uneducated and unable to read the word) were able to grow spiritually? I do however have some Greek and Hebrew dictionaries and lexicons that allow me to look up some of the original words and the nuances of meanings of the original text.

Second the short and sweet of how a child of God cooperates with the Holy Spirit is that 1st, you must be born again of His spirit as His offspring. I trust that is true of everyone reading this...
Next, it greatly helps to have been baptised in the Holy Spirit and be able to pray in tongues. Now, I realize that most reading this at this point are probably dismissing everything I have to say here... But what does God's word say? "He who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men but unto God", "he edifies himself" and "in the spirit he speaks mysteries". Now in that God is omniscient (knowing all) what mysteries could you or I speak that He didn't already know? No, it isn't a mystery that we could come up with, but something that He is praying through us. And though the scripture tells us that when we pray in that unknown tongue, our mind is unfruitful (at that time) and does not understand what we said, It also tells us that He, the Holy Spirit has been given us to lead and guide us into all truth and teach us all things. But how does He do it? Comparing spiritual things with spiritual as revealed in chapter 2 of 1 Corinthians and by edifying us as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14 and building us up on our most holy faith as we pray in the Holy Spirit.
So what is the method of cooperating with the Holy Spirit to allow Him to teach us Spirit-to-spirit? We greatly aid this process by filling up our own heart with His word. According to Mark 4, the Sower sows the word, Romans 10:17 faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. But more specifically, reading one book at a time over and over and over until an image of the book is painted inside of you, but meanwhile praying in the spirit every time you pour over His word. Then at some point you realize that He has opened your understanding of what the passage was saying and you understand a truth of His word you never understood before.

In the parable of the sower, if you notice, the Word of God or the seed is constant. It is the ground that makes the difference as to the harvest produced by the seed. Another thing to notice is that not understanding the word was what allowed the word to be taken away such that it could not even take root... Fortunately for us, our "ground" can be changed and become the good ground that produces a good harvest. Romans 8:26 says Likewise the Spirit ALSO helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. If you study the passage in context of what has been mentioned in the previous chapters and in the earlier part of chapter 8, not only does your new born again nature help you to live as His holy, righteous children, but the Holy Spirit ALSO helps us with our infirmities (the rocks in our soil, the things in us that hinder our walk with Him and that are not Christ-like) by helping pray through us and edify us.
Another thing to notice is that not understanding the word was what allowed the word to be taken away such that it could not even take root... And if the Holy Spirit is the one opening your understanding and helping your to have good soil, then your chances of having the good harvest are greatly increased.

I highly recommend that you listen to all of the series of sermons I mentioned including the 3 meditation series and the 6 volumes of series entitled "The Born Again Trail" as they will greatly enlighten you about the born-again nature that God gave you and how to cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/8/2015 6:27:21 PM | Like (0) | Report

Very well said Heavy. You have just described my experience with God and His word. We are told to break up the fallow ground.
Paul said that he beat his body and died daily. Our ground needs to stay receptive to Gods Word. The farmer breaks up the ground over and over again. It sounds painful but is necessary to humble our flesh.

The challenge is for us to discover what Gods word says and its spiritual meaning and application.
We agree that it is best to get qualified translationalists. However, when it comes greek to english, you dont believe that it applies. I ask you, what about modern languages into english? Most business is conducted between foreign countries and ours these days. If the translations could not be trusted, then the commerce would be impossible.
The translationalists are not to be trusted.

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heavykevy

on 1/8/2015 11:37:35 PM | Like (0) | Report

I don't believe you have fully grasped what all I am saying here...
Yes, I do believe that we need qualified translators, the best translators possible. And I do believe that the King James Translation is the best and most accurate translation into English. However, it is not inerrant as is the original text. I can off of the top of my head point out several passages or common word choices that don't work well for us today especially in that English has somewhat evolved since it was translated. For example, the greek word Exousia is often translated power, but so is the Greek word Dunamis from which we get dynamite. Exousia is more correctly translated as authority. Another example is the Greek word gune which can be correctly translated as woman if it is not accompanied by the Greek word Aner, which can be man or husband. When these 2 Greek words are found together in a passage, they should ALWAYS be translated as husband and wife. Yet many passages where both are used together are translated as man and woman leading to confusion in the passages.

Furthermore lack of punctuation in the Greek allows for punctuation errors in the English as well as the problem with the capitalization of spirit as I pointed out earlier.

My point is that though the King James is good and REQUIRED for those of us who do not read the Greek, we need even more to rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the truths contained in His supernatural, living word before we will truly understand it and have it reap its full harvest in us. And in that He is Spirit, it is only through supernatural Spirit-to-spirit interaction with Him that we fully receive this tutoring from the Holy Spirit. (The natural man or natural mind does not comprehend the things of God in and of itself, for they are foolishness to him, because they are spiritually discerned)

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newname

on 1/9/2015 4:00:05 AM | Like (0) | Report

Thanks for your time Heavy. I will respond over the weekend as I'm headed out the door.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/9/2015 10:43:55 AM | Like (0) | Report

Good stuff, thanks Heavy, I will try to look into this new information.

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newname

on 1/11/2015 4:54:01 AM | Like (0) | Report

Well, the main idea I came away with is that we need to "cooperate with the Holy Spirit". I think that when we thirst for Truth and desire to please the Lord, we are cooperating with the H.S.

It is your desire that we not be at the mercy of fallible man.... yet, as babes in Christ, we do need pastors and teachers to help guide us as we grow in the Lord. As we mature, we may find that we no longer really need a "parent" and we instead begin to help others in guiding them to maturity.

I see in scripture that we have apostles dialoging with each other who didn't always agree, and when they did disagree they didn't say, "well this is just what God told me" (and I'm not saying this is what you or your pastor is saying); they simply were working out what seemed best to them in light of the evidence that they had and in light of the revelation that they had received. So, they exercised a lot of common sense and a lot of working out the theology. The point I'm making is that there is no need to eliminate human judgment as we seek to understand any given passage. I do apply my own human judgment to scripture when considering the meaning of a passage, and the key to it's meaning, is the context. I think the context validates its accuracy.

I'm glad that your pastor is helping you to grow in the Lord, loving Him with all your heart. Keep walking in newness of life, praising and thanking Him ever day... God Bless

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vesselofmercy

on 1/12/2015 3:09:04 PM | Like (0) | Report

Heavy, I do not know anyone with expertise in greek to english. If you could site your sources, that would be very helpful to me.Thank you.

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heavykevy

on 1/13/2015 8:25:14 AM | Like (0) | Report

I'm sorry, I don't quite understand... sources for what exactly?
I use e-sword which allows you to download resources. It comes with the Strongs Greek dictionary/lexicon, and I downloaded and use the Thayers as well.
The information about gune and aner came from a sermon my Pastor taught. He has access to or owns much better Greek resources than I do. unfortunately, I don't remember which sermon(s) exactly and cannot remember if he cited the reference book that stipulates this rule.
I can provide you his email address though, but not on a public page. If you want his email address to contact him, let me know and we can work out a way for me to pass you his email address.

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vesselofmercy

on 1/13/2015 11:53:32 AM | Like (0) | Report

Thanks again Heavy. I am quite sure that your Pastor is very busy with his flock,and to field questions from our discussions,would probably be burdensome. When I have time, I will look into it.

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Dec 31, 2014 - 08:14 AM

I would say that His will for all is for them to be saved first and foremost, then for those who are born again, that they would mature into the image of Christ, learn what He has called them to be and do, and then learn to be lead of the Holy Spirit to the point that they do nothing for God except what they hear Him instructing them to do. Like as Jesus said in the Gospel of John.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of the body of Christ matures no further than being born again babes, and of the few that actually take the time and effort to mature, few of them are willing to lay down their lives taking up their cross daily and seeking and following His will only. Many are called, in fact all that are born again are called, but few will do what is necessary to be chosen.
All of this is throughout the New Testament and if you dig deep enough you will find it.

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If God was involved in and or controlling every aspect of our lives, Adam would never had a chance to sin, Christians wouldn't die young of disease , accidents, or other causes and we wouldn't be able to choose to sin. What you are saying here is quite contrary to what the scriptures reveal about God's interaction in our lives.
I don't mean to be nitpicky here but are you combining more than one reference here?
Walking in the newness of the spirit could be from several places, but the last part, not in the oldness of the letter... comes from 2 cor 3:6.
And I am curious, do you understand what walking in the newness of the spirit refers to, and what the oldness of the letter refers to in the contexts where these passages came from?
Brother Heavykevy, I am glad to respond to your question. I often speak off the cuff with no scripture references which would be best. I do not have a lot of time to elaborate with scripture references, which would be best. I do believe that this concept comes from 2cor. chapters 2, 3 etc.
My understanding is that "the law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ". Moses ministered the Law or letter that was written on tablets, meaning the ten commandments, which leads us to condemnation,quilt and death because we can't keep them.This is the Old Covenant.
Jesus inaugurated the New Covenant is His Blood. He ministered the Spirit, this is the new and living way which leads to justification, righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. This is why there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ
who walk after the Spirit or Jesus, and not after the flesh meaning works, or Moses.
This is my hope for us in 2015, that we walk in the newness of life or Spirit, and not oldness of the letter or flesh.
I hope this blesses you.
Thank you for elaborating...
One thing I would like to point out that it appears you haven't fully grasped yet is that where these passages you referred to mentions "Spirit", in most, if not all that you mentioned, the passage is referring to your born again human spirit and not the Holy Spirit. And though it may seem a minor thing it is actualy important to understand. For it is only by being born again in to His image and receiving His nature in us that we are His offspring and can be able to live and walk by our new born again nature and be like Jesus who is our example that we are expected to conform to.
You are welcome. I trust that the ones who translated the bible into english by way of the King James understood the greek and hebrew much better that I and were probably correct. So, when the word Spirit is capitalized, I take that to be referring to the Holy Spirit of God and not a human spirit.
Unfortunately, they were not infallible and mistranslated many places with a capital that should have been a lower case s.
You must rely on the context to know if the text is referring to the Holy Spirit or the born again spirit that was given us.
The problem with the Greek text is that the text did not use capitals so that the translators had to make educated guesses as to when it should be capital and lower case.
One prominent location of many mistakes is Romans 8 where the first mention of the Holy Spirit is actually in verse 16 "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children (teknon - meaning offspring) of God. Every spirit before that in chapter 8 should be lower case. If you would like to listen to sermons that will help you fully understand why, I highly recommend the 6 series of sermon entitled: "The Born Again Trail" at daveroberson.org/series.aspx.
I would have to look into that, but you made my point in that they had to use educated guesses which few people would be qualified to do I am guessing. So I go with their educated guesses. Thanks for sharing.
Vessel of mercy, you need not be at themercy of fallible mankind when God the Holy Spirit has been sent to be your teacher...
When you learn to get it straight from Him then you will be able to discern with greater accuracy than the translators. The sermon series I shared in my previous post will teach you how to do that.
Brother, If I were to take issue with the translation of any writing, I think it best to search out qualified translationists to verify the validity of the translation. I think it is very dangerous, as we have been given many stern warnings, not to change Gods word. Saying that the H.S told me so, gives license to people to manipulate the word as they see fit.
If you were referring to the original text, I would agree with you, but for a translation into a vague non-exact language such as English, I disagree. And I trust the Holy Spirit more to reveal what He was saying in the original text than the translators.
I do believe that the King James is the best translation into English, but it is most certainly not infallible as is the original text.
Can you help me to understand how the Holy Spirit does that? Do you read the original manuscripts in greek, and He tells you how it is to be understood in modern american english?
Very well said Heavy. You have just described my experience with God and His word. We are told to break up the fallow ground.
Paul said that he beat his body and died daily. Our ground needs to stay receptive to Gods Word. The farmer breaks up the ground over and over again. It sounds painful but is necessary to humble our flesh.

The challenge is for us to discover what Gods word says and its spiritual meaning and application.
We agree that it is best to get qualified translationalists. However, when it comes greek to english, you dont believe that it applies. I ask you, what about modern languages into english? Most business is conducted between foreign countries and ours these days. If the translations could not be trusted, then the commerce would be impossible.
The translationalists are not to be trusted.
I don't believe you have fully grasped what all I am saying here...
Yes, I do believe that we need qualified translators, the best translators possible. And I do believe that the King James Translation is the best and most accurate translation into English. However, it is not inerrant as is the original text. I can off of the top of my head point out several passages or common word choices that don't work well for us today especially in that English has somewhat evolved since it was translated. For example, the greek word Exousia is often translated power, but so is the Greek word Dunamis from which we get dynamite. Exousia is more correctly translated as authority. Another example is the Greek word gune which can be correctly translated as woman if it is not accompanied by the Greek word Aner, which can be man or husband. When these 2 Greek words are found together in a passage, they should ALWAYS be translated as husband and wife. Yet many passages where both are used together are translated as man and woman leading to confusion in the passages.

Furthermore lack of punctuation in the Greek allows for punctuation errors in the English as well as the problem with the capitalization of spirit as I pointed out earlier.

My point is that though the King James is good and REQUIRED for those of us who do not read the Greek, we need even more to rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the truths contained in His supernatural, living word before we will truly understand it and have it reap its full harvest in us. And in that He is Spirit, it is only through supernatural Spirit-to-spirit interaction with Him that we fully receive this tutoring from the Holy Spirit. (The natural man or natural mind does not comprehend the things of God in and of itself, for they are foolishness to him, because they are spiritually discerned)
Thanks for your time Heavy. I will respond over the weekend as I'm headed out the door.
Good stuff, thanks Heavy, I will try to look into this new information.
Well, the main idea I came away with is that we need to "cooperate with the Holy Spirit". I think that when we thirst for Truth and desire to please the Lord, we are cooperating with the H.S.

It is your desire that we not be at the mercy of fallible man.... yet, as babes in Christ, we do need pastors and teachers to help guide us as we grow in the Lord. As we mature, we may find that we no longer really need a "parent" and we instead begin to help others in guiding them to maturity.

I see in scripture that we have apostles dialoging with each other who didn't always agree, and when they did disagree they didn't say, "well this is just what God told me" (and I'm not saying this is what you or your pastor is saying); they simply were working out what seemed best to them in light of the evidence that they had and in light of the revelation that they had received. So, they exercised a lot of common sense and a lot of working out the theology. The point I'm making is that there is no need to eliminate human judgment as we seek to understand any given passage. I do apply my own human judgment to scripture when considering the meaning of a passage, and the key to it's meaning, is the context. I think the context validates its accuracy.

I'm glad that your pastor is helping you to grow in the Lord, loving Him with all your heart. Keep walking in newness of life, praising and thanking Him ever day... God Bless
Heavy, I do not know anyone with expertise in greek to english. If you could site your sources, that would be very helpful to me.Thank you.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand... sources for what exactly?
I use e-sword which allows you to download resources. It comes with the Strongs Greek dictionary/lexicon, and I downloaded and use the Thayers as well.
The information about gune and aner came from a sermon my Pastor taught. He has access to or owns much better Greek resources than I do. unfortunately, I don't remember which sermon(s) exactly and cannot remember if he cited the reference book that stipulates this rule.
I can provide you his email address though, but not on a public page. If you want his email address to contact him, let me know and we can work out a way for me to pass you his email address.
Thanks again Heavy. I am quite sure that your Pastor is very busy with his flock,and to field questions from our discussions,would probably be burdensome. When I have time, I will look into it.

Is God involved in every aspect of our lives or are there some things that He leaves up to our discretion?

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