"Mansion in Heaven" Christian ForumAnswers
Jul 01, 2014 - 02:58 PM
Hello Texan4Jesus,
I would like to take a shot at your question. First of all you mention Hebrews 6:4-6 and that is one of the verses that people use to try and “prove” that a person can lose their salvation. Hebrews 10:26 is another verse that people use to try and convince others that their salvation can be lost. Before we can even begin to discuss these two verses, we have to first understand who the book was written to and why it was written.
The book of Hebrews was written to the Jews, the Hebrew people. It was not written to the church, and it was not written to born again believers to show them that their salvation can be lost. The book of Hebrews was written for the sole purpose of showing the Hebrew people the superiority of Jesus Christ over all things, including Judaism.
Now that is very important to understand because this is what was happening at that time. There were many Jews following Jesus because of the miracles He was performing and they were astonished at His teachings. They were following Him wherever He went but they weren’t saved. I’m not saying that none of them were saved because I believe that some were and some weren’t. But you have to understand that for a Jew to surrender their life over to Jesus Christ, that is serious business. You think we go through hardships when we receive Christ? I mean, our friends sometimes no longer want to associate with us. Even our own family member who aren’t saved turn away from us.
Well, here’s what happens to a Jewish/Hebrew person if they receive Christ. Their family completely disowns them, they are no longer allowed in their own temple, and they no longer can inherit anything from their father when he dies. We complain when we have to give up certain things to receive Christ. Well, compared to what it would cost a Hebrew person, we have nothing to complain about.
I mention these things to you because that is what was taking place at that time and that is why Hebrews was written. You see, to the Jew Hebraism was all they knew. So now they are being told that the Law and everything they were taught to believe about salvation could not save them. They had to receive Christ and that was their only hope. Some received Him, but many didn’t. Many turned away and went back into Hebraism because it was just “too hard” to follow Jesus and completely surrender their lives over to Him.
So now let’s look first at Hebrews 6:4-6. I use a King James, but you can use any version you choose. But it says, “ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
You mention that the first part of this verse seems as though it is speaking of someone who is saved. However, an “enlightened” person does not mean that they are a saved person. The Jews were following Jesus. They were being “enlightened” to the truth. They were partakers of the miracles that He was performing, so yes, they tasted of the heavenly gift. Nowhere here is it saying that they surrendered their life to Jesus Christ. But please keep in mind what they were doing. They were partaking of all these things, just the same as everyone else, the true disciples, but they never took that next step.
They came so far but would not take the next step in surrendering their lives to Jesus Christ. Why not? Because it was going to cost them dearly. It was much easier for them to turn away and go back into Judaism then it was to surrender to Christ. Many of us are like that today. We count the cost and we make our decisions based on what it’s going to cost us. What is it going to cost me to receive Christ? I might lose my friends, my own family might turn against me, the bible says that I will be persecuted. You know, it’s much easier to become a “church member” or follow a religion than it is to receive Christ and follow Him. People make those decisions all the time. They say things like “I’m just going to go to church” and do the things that Christians are supposed to do. It’s much easier that way. I don’t want to receive Christ because I have to follow Him and that’s “too hard!”
That is what the Jews were doing. If you read Hebrews 6:4-6 carefully, and then picture what was taking place at that time. You see, the Jews rejected their Messiah. They crucified Him. And so now they are being told that they must surrender their lives over to Him or else they cannot be saved. They thought they already had salvation because they were Jews. I don’t need to surrender my life to Christ, I’ve got the temple, I keep the law, I am a descendent of Abraham, and now you are telling me that is no good and I need to receive Christ? I’m out of here!
That was happening my friend, and the writer of Hebrews is saying that “If they shall fall away,” meaning if they turn their backs on Christ, their only hope of salvation, there is no other way for them to be saved. Judaism will not save them. It says “seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” They crucified Him once, and now they are turning their backs on Him again by not surrendering their lives to Him. They are crucifying Him afresh by doing so!
Hebrews 10:26 says “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.”
This is another verse people throw out there to say that you can lose your salvation. That is not what this verse is saying. A person who has “received the knowledge of truth” is not a saved person. You, being a saved person can tell me all about Jesus Christ. You can tell me that I have to receive Him to be saved and that if I don’t receive Him, I have no hope of salvation. Does that make me saved? No!
However, I have just received the knowledge of truth from you. But I am still not saved by receiving that knowledge. There has to be a spiritual birth from God before I am saved. What this verse is saying is that after I have received the knowledge of the truth, and please notice that it says knowledge of “the truth,” so now it’s personal. Jesus tells us in John Chapter 14 that He is “The Truth.”
So now after I receive the knowledge of the truth, the gospel of my salvation, and I choose to continue on in my lifestyle of sinning willfully, what this is saying is that there is no other hope for me. There is no more sacrifice for sin, period!
Hope this helps you out some!
Jul 06, 2014 - 09:11 PM
Just a thought concerning Hebrews,
If you were truly enlightened, do you think it possible for that person to actually fall away?
I say that it is impossible for someone who has been truly enlightened to fall away. Now I do not mean those who say they were enlightened and never where. But if one truly had an experience of the spirit, I do not think that they would ever forget it.
This does not mean that we will not sin, for we are all still sinners. The difference is that we recognize our sins and ask forgiveness for them.
If they do happen to fall away, then I am wrong in my first assumption. If this is the case, then what does scripture say? They cannot be renewed again unto repentance. What is repentance? It is the reversal of ones decision. They cannot change their mind back, but I ask you this, could God change their mind for them?
God tells us that He will place His laws within our heart, that He will place His laws within our mind (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 2:15; Hebrews 8:10; Hebrews 10:16 KJV). If this is the case, do we have a choice in the matter? I say no, because what God decides to do He will do, this is His sovereignty.
Another point in this is, “Is scripture only speaking of repentance in this age?” Do we have a choice to repent in the ages to come? I say this because scriptures tells us that “In the ages to come, God will show His grace” (Eph 2:7). What does in the ages to come mean? What does showing His grace mean? I have answers but I want you to come to them on your own.
My short answer is, NO, one cannot lose their salvation. They can lose it in this age, but not in the ages to come.
Blessings
Jul 07, 2014 - 06:54 AM
What about the scriptures which say that all will be saved? Do we believe in that? If this is true then does your question have any relevance?
I find that some see scriptures in one light, and others see scripture in another light, thus we have a ton of different denominations because we have a ton of different interpretations of scripture. Which one is correct in their interpretations? Only God knows.
If scripture tells us that ALL will be saved, do we believe it? Most will not, for I know that I did not in the beginning. I find that we need to agree on a few terms within scripture to be on the same page of understanding when discussing this topic.
For example, what is the meaning of “Grace?” And in particular, what is the meaning of Grace within scripture? I have found (tell me if you agree or not) that grace is a gift from God. In other words, we do not earn it nor deserve it, we just get it. So, if we are saved by grace through faith as told to us in Ephesians 2:8, then that must mean that we are saved because God chose us, not the other way around. Is this not what Jesus tells us in John 15:16, that He chose us, we did not choose Him? If this is true, then do we have a choice in our salvation, or is it a work of God?
This is backed up in the book of John in my opinion. In John 14:6 we read about how we cannot be saved unless we go through Jesus, or believe in Jesus. Yet in John 6:44 we are told that God (Father) must bring us to Jesus (bring us into the belief of Jesus), that we cannot go their of our own accord. Once again, do we have a choice in the matter? Is this what John 6:1 means when it says that “This is the work of God, THAT YOU WOULD BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT?” Does this not mean that God made us believe in Jesus?
Then we see that this grace of God (salvation) hath appeared to all men (Titus 2:11), does this mean that all will be saved? Then we read in 1 Timothy 4:10 where God tells us that He is the savior of ALL MEN, ESPECIALLY those that believe. What do we make of this passage? Do we ignore it or make something different out of it?
Let me define one other word, and that is “Faith”. Faith is defined as hearing the voice of God. Yes, it also does mean to have trust and belief, yet within scripture the main understanding of this word is to actually hear God’s voice through the spirit. This can be seen in testing all of the scriptures in Hebrews 11 and by examining Romans 10:17. Do we ignore this? I find that we indeed ignore this IF WE DO NOT YET HEAR from God.
In other words, if we do indeed hear from God then we can except this definition, but if we do not yet hear from God then we have trouble with this definition because it then means that we do not yet have faith. So then, are we not all going to be given faith? Is this not what we are told in Romans 3:30, that God shall justify (save) the righteous (circumcision) by faith, and then ALSO justify (save) the unrighteous (uncircumcision) through faith?
If this is true as I believe that it is, then we have just found the mechanism by which we will be saved, and that is faith, we will all be saved because God will speak to us as an individual, we will hear His voice. This is the means to salvation, this is how God will save us, and when He starts to speak to you, I will tell you, you will not deny Him. So if Scripture tells us that God will eventually speak to all men, then are not all men saved? Is the power of Jesus death on the cross good enough to allow that? Did Jesus die for all men or just a few? Shall all men be made alive just as all men are cursed by Adam with death as told to us in 1 Corinthians 15:22?
See this, that if you believe that all men will be saved, then you will find it written all through scripture. This is the key, because until you believe in salvation for all, it cannot be seen within scripture. But then what about all of these death and hell verses? How do they fit in with salvation for all?
Do you know that the New Testament was written only for those who would be saved in this age? If you study the introduction of most of the books of the NT, you will find that they are written to the Saints, not everyone else. Thus, the knowledge is for the saints, not everyone else, for everyone else cannot understand what scripture tells them.
Have you seen in scripture where it will be the Saints who will be the body of Christ, it will be the saints that will be the kings and priest of God. That the rest of us will become members in the kingdom in the ages to come, but only the saints will make it in this age. We are all part of creation, thus we are all waiting on the manifestation of the sons of God (Romans 8:19). Did you notice that the sons of God are plural? This is the body that we are waiting on, and Jesus tells us that they will do greater things than even He did (John 14:1).
This is what Jesus means when He says at the last supper “eat of this, for this is my body.” The body spoken of is the body of Christ, the many member group of people, not the individual. The wine represents the spirit of God which will be poured out upon this body. When the body of Christ stands up (is made manifest), there will come the greatest ministry the world has ever seen, for the body will be guided by Jesus, they will do all that He commands, they will save the world through the spirit of God. The glory of God will be seen within each one of them as each one will be blameless, each one will have been made a brother to Jesus. These are the ones who will rule in the 1000 years of Christ. (the age soon upon us)
What does death mean to us? It means that we who are not called in this age are set aside until another age, and scripture tells us that all will be made alive in the age after the age of Christ (the 1000 years). Those who do not make it in this age will be guided by the saints in the ages to come, they will also overcome. But to do so they must go through the fire, the fire represents the spirit of God, for this fire will cleans us. We are afraid of the eternal fire because we do not understand it, we do not understand the purpose of the fire. It is this fire which all of mankind must go through, for the fire will purify your body to make it ready for the kingdom. The biggest difference today is that some people are going through the fire in this age, and others will wait until the age to come. But in the end, all will go through the fire of purification.
The prophets speak of this time, about how it will be God who guides us to salvation, not us doing it of our own will. For our will is weak, it is corrupted, it cannot save itself. Thus only the power of God will save anyone, for we are saved by grace through faith only. We are not saved by our free will, it is not in scripture. We need not make a choice for God, for God will chose us, we need not chose Him. But when He does indeed chose us, we will not fail Him.
Blessings
Jul 08, 2014 - 02:26 AM
I can give you a long list and explain them, but I would just be repeating much of what is contained in the following series of sermons by my pastor:
(16) S163 Is My Eternity Secure? at the following link:
http://jmmgrace.com/teachings5.html
Listen to it, then if you have any questions, I will try to clarify them for you.
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