"Mansion in Heaven" Christian ForumAnswers
Apr 11, 2015 - 11:35 PM
Sorry. Thanks
Apr 13, 2015 - 02:13 PM
Here are some articles I found that hopefully will answer your other questions:
Title of article: "How can I recognize the guidance of the Holy Spirit?"
Link: http://www.gotquestions.org/guidance-Holy-Spirit.html
Title of article: "What is sola scriptura?"
Link: http://www.gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html
Title of article: "Are we supposed to obey our pastors?"
Link: http://www.gotquestions.org/pastors-obey.html
As for Acts 17:11, Adam Clarke and Albert Barnes have good commentaries on this verse. If you want to read them, click on the link ( http://www.godvine.com/bible/acts/17-11 ) and scroll down to "Clarke's Commentary" and/or "Barnes' Notes."
By the way, most people have stopped visiting this forum, so if you want more input regarding your question, you might try posting it in the "Bible Questions & Comments" section of our new forum. You can find it by clicking on "New Forum" on the home page of my website (www.mansioninheaven.com), or you can go there directly by typing the URL (www.mansioninheaven.com/phpbb) in your computer's browser. I've kept this forum mainly for reference to things that were posted in the past.
Apr 19, 2015 - 01:27 PM
Dotking,
I totally understand where you are coming from.
I grew up in the church, and thought I knew and understood the truth.
It was not until about 8 years ago that I really started discovering how little of the truth the vast majority of the church really understands.
Case in point, all of the things you mentioned... What is the role of a pastor? In that the Bible defines the Pastor for the church, I believe we should hold to what it says...
The pastor is supposed to be the 'local' shepherd who is taking orders from the chief shepherd, learning from the Holy Spirit and feeding the flock from God's table. The pastor is supposed to be training those in their church how to be disciples of Christ and how to grow into spiritual maturity to the place of being like Christ in the way they live and behave, to the point that they are spirit led and go about doing good and healing all who are oppressed of the devil.
The problem I see with the church today is that it is too full of religion and not enough reliance on the Holy Spirit. Jesus told us that the Holy Spirit would be given to us to lead and guide us into ALL TRUTH. And defined truth as being God's word.
From what I see in the Bible the answer to your questions is the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Many (maybe most) will debate this, but based on the scriptures and having seen first hand how that this works, I can only say those who debate it have been deceived. According to the Bible, praying in tongues is a revelation gift and it is how we cooperate with the Holy Spirit in order to allow Him to lead and guide us into the truth. I am a member of a church whose Pastor prays in tongues regularly. His pastor prays in tongues regularly, and there are other affiliated non-denominational churches with pastors who also pray in tongues regularly. The amazing thing is that even though they don't cooborate what they will be teaching from week to week, month to month, they preach very similar messages saying the same truths yet in different words. Our church recently had a week of meetings that they call their "prayer and power conference" in which a few ministers were invited from some of these other churches and the meetings flowed one into another from the mind of Christ even though they came from different churches and did not collaborate on what they would be teaching. They spent time praying in tongues and God gave them the message that came forth with the noted unity.
You say that many/most preachers say they got their message from God or the Holy Spirit but then they contradict one another. The fact that they contradict one another tells you that at least one of them did not get their message from God, and if they are not spending hours praying in tongues and meditating the word, then it is highly likely that neither of them received their message from God or the Holy Spirit.
If you are truly hungry to find out more I highly recommend that you go to the following web site and download and read pastor Dave Roberson's book "The Walk of the Spirit, the Walk of Power" In his book, he exposes the truth about praying in tongues, what it does for you and how it impacts your life and will straighten your path so that you can walk in the perfect will of God for your life. I also highly recommend all of the foundational sermons on the series page, especially the Born Again Trail Volumes 1 through 6. The website is as follows:
http://daveroberson.org/books.aspx
Apr 19, 2015 - 05:13 PM
I found another article you may be interested in reading:
Title: "What is praying in tongues? Is praying in tongues a prayer language between a believer and God?"
Link: http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-in-tongues.html
Apr 21, 2015 - 12:53 PM
You need no rebuke, neither to be set straight. What you have written expresses probably what several other believers feel in their heart concerning the church today.
Scripture alone or “Sola Scriptura” should be the rule for everyone who professes Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. When a person who attends church faithfully does not search and study the scriptures for themselves, it is likely, and probably the cause of them believing in the preconceived ideas and doctrines of man.
It is the lazy approach and yet many take that road. It is so much easier to just go to church and just take what is being said as pure truth. And why not, because we get it stuck in our minds that the man standing up there is a man of God and he can’t be wrong, you know? So why even bother checking it out for ourselves?
I think we take a great risk by not studying to see if what we are being taught is the truth from God’s word. But like I said, it is much more easier to just show up and listen to what we are being taught, and then go home and come back again next week for the same thing. Where is the growth in that? How are we to know if what we are being taught was the truth if we do not take the time to search it out?
I would like to touch on the places where you placed question marks. First of all, is the church of today on the right track? I would have to say no, not at all. Don’t get me wrong, there are believer’s today who are faithful to the Lord, and spend ample time in His word in order to get to know Him more. However, it seems to me that the church today much resembles the church in Corinth back in Paul’s day.
The church today is in sad shape. People are not in churches to hear the word of God because “that’s too boring!” Believe me, I have heard that. Many are in churches today for experiences, mainly emotional experiences. They are there to feed their flesh. They want that “feel good” emotional high! But when it comes time to sit and listen to the word, then that emotional high is gone and they become bored.
The church today has become too big and it was never intended to be that way. Many today are preaching “the bigger, the better” but the fact is that the larger the numbers, the more problems there are going to be. The church is in this condition today because it has gotten too huge.
I notice in the gospels that when large crowds began to gather around Jesus, one of two things would usually happen. Jesus would either depart away from the crowd, or He would began to speak truth to them and they would turn and leave on their own.
Jesus was never concerned with numbers. You would think that Jesus would want everyone to show up to hear Him. You know, “the more people the better?” But Jesus removed Himself when the crowds began to get too big. You see, Jesus only wanted those who were being drawn to Him by the Father.
I am reminded of the parable of the mustard seed. Something was supposed to grow small got out of control and grew so large that the birds came and sat in its branches. Those birds represent evil. In our churches today, there is a mixture of those who are truly born of God’s Spirit and those who are there that “look and act” like Christians, whatever that is supposed to mean, and we oftentimes cannot tell the difference.
Now, you ask who’s right when multiple preachers say “God gave me a message” and they contradict each other? First of all, let me say that when I hear someone say “God gave me a message,” right away a red flag raises in my mind. I am very cautious around people who claim that God gave them a message. Yes, God still communicates to people today. I believe that. But when someone comes to me or when I hear someone tell me that “God gave them a message,” it means absolutely nothing, nada, zip, to me. Unless God gives me the same message he is giving that person, IT MEANS NOTHING! Plus, God is not going to communicate any messages to anyone to share with others that He has not already communicated to us through His written word, period!
Was Bob Jones full of the Holy Spirit when he preached something that he later apologized for? He might have claimed to be when he gave that message, whatever it was, but the Holy Spirit is not going to persuade a person to preach something at one point in time, and then later on persuade that person to apologize for what they said. That will not happen. People claim to be “filled with the Holy Spirit” while giving a message but oftentimes it is not the Spirit of God, but perhaps a spirit nonetheless.
Is it Biblical for one man telling everyone else how to read their Bibles? No, it is not biblical at all! Whay works for one person might not work for the next. We (those who are born of God’s Spirit) do not need any man telling us how to study God’s word. It is so sad that people spend a lot of money on “how to do it” books that tell them how to pray, how to study, how to get closer to God…..you name it. Why do we spend money on those books when everything we need to know is contained in God’s word? People buy bibles, but they take them home and they sit on shelves collecting dust for years. But at the same time, they are still purchasing the “how to do it” books. I see a problem in that!
You ask that if a man claims that the Lord gave him a message, then is it not as good as Scripture?
Well, that is what they would want you to believe. I mean if “God told them,” it has to be true right? That’s where we get ourselves into trouble. It’s by falling into the old trap of “God told them” so it has got to be true. Very dangerous if you ask me!
As far as the Catholic church claiming sanction of the Holy Spirit, they also claim that tradition is equal to, and in most cases tradition is placed above scripture. How do you place anything above God’s word? For them, scripture is not complete. For them, God still communicates revelation that cannot be found in His word to the Pope and when the Pope speaks “ex cathedra” and proclaims a so called “message from God,” the people have no choice other than to agree with what he says, no matter how ridiculous it may sound, and no matter if scripture says otherwise. To disagree with the dogma of the Catholic church, one runs the risk of being ex communicated from the church, in which case, that person has no chance of salvation. Pure nonsense!
So, what did happen to Acts 17:11? Yes, true church should be that way. Those people would not even take Paul’s word for anything without checking it and comparing it to scripture. I wonder what we would do today if Paul were here teaching us something. We know that Paul received his teaching and revelation from Jesus Christ Himself for three years out in the Arabian Desert.
Paul said that if any man preaches any other gospel than that which we have preached (Paul himself included), let him be accursed! Wow! What a bold claim for Paul to make. Paul preached the same message Jesus preached and Paul’s teachings never contradict those of Christ. But even so, Paul still commended those of Berea for not just taking his word for it, but taking what he taught them, and them going and searching the scriptures for confirmation to see if what he taught them lined up! That is what it should be about today, but sad to say, it’s not!
"Obey them that have the rule over you?” Sure, why not! However, we need to obey them in the Lord, meaning that if they are not lining up properly, if the break ranks so to speak, we follow Christ. We are under no obligation to obey anyone who does not line up in the Lord.
My friend, I share your sentiments. I myself see the church as a whole heading in the wrong direction. Our focus needs to be on Christ and yet we let ourselves get caught up and distracted in the he said/she said thing which only leads to more confusion.
Trust in the Lord, Trust in His word alone. Be very cautious of those who tell you to listen their pastor’s teachings if you want the truth. I say that if you want the truth, search it out for yourself. We all have the same truth, and that truth is God’s written word. We all have the same teacher, which is God’s Spirit to teach us what it is that He wants us to know through His word.
No man, and no mans sermons or teachings can reveal the truth of God’s word to us. It takes the Spirit of God, to take God’s word, and to minister the truth of His word to our hearts and minds. No man can do that. I am not saying that we should not fellowship with other believers, or we should not listen to pastors at all. I am not saying that!
We need to be extremely cautious, especially when someone says “listen to my pastor” or “listen to my pastor’s teachings if you want a better understanding of God’s word. Nothing can replace the ministry of God’s Spirit ministering the truth of God’s word to our hearts as we study and search the scriptures, and submit ourselves completely to the Lord for His purposes. No man can do that, no man! It takes the Spirit of God to understand the things of God, and to understand His word.
If we remain in His word, we do well!!!
God Bless!
Apr 24, 2015 - 04:51 AM
The one about tongues is WAY off, they have taken a few isolated scriptures out of their scriptural context and presented information that is not truthful.
I have listened to many preachers in my day and have found that the vast majority are puppeting what they have been taught by other men before them.
Pastor Dave Roberson was the first teacher that I listened to that caused me to sit back and say, "he doesn't teach like the others, he teaches like Jesus as one who really understands the word"
It is only because of his close interaction with the Holy Spirit and his spending long hours daily praying in tongues that he has been led and guided in to truth.
If you are truly hungry, you will ignore the nay sayers and dig in and find the treasure.
And I assure you that if you do what Pastor Dave teaches, you will grow and mature in to the image of Christ because his message is what Jesus, Paul, John and the other writers of the New Testament taught because he is getting it straight for the same source.
Other great sources for truch include jmmgrace.com and garycarpenter.org
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